PVP Game drops

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PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
Hi! Often during a game (after few turns) everything drops and both players receive gold and points. It happens only with certain players (thinking of Bourke Street or KenobiLight for example.. sorry guys). I hope Goblins helps me to fix this issue... I cannot write in global chat too: when I try to send a message, page freeze with a waiting gear in the middle until I press cancel (it's another issue, I guess) so I write here!
I would like to say everybody that every game I play is for fun and 'cause I love this game, I'm not one of those players that quit for avoid defeats or to collect points or gold. A lot of players can testify what I say because we finish every game without any problem.. Just to explain.
Anyone have or had same issues? Any suggestions?
Tnx!
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Re: PVP Game drops

Kenobilight
Sorry to hear that Rouge. On occasion it happens to me with others but with u it's every game. If your playing others just fine it must be a app problem, I play on a I-phone 4 if that matters. =)
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Re: PVP Game drops

markturnergoblin
In reply to this post by Mr.Rouge
If you can use the feedback button in options next time it happens and explain there also ,we can have a look.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
I've sent some feedbacks already, it happens with 30-40% of players, I think. I tried to restart the app after every game, I update my device, I turn off iPhone too, a lot of times. I don't understand how it still happens. Before last updates all ever worked fine. Thanks for help goblins, I already solved with Mike another issue months ago, I know that you guys will do everything in your power to fix that. ;)
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Re: PVP Game drops

Moose
In reply to this post by Mr.Rouge
I think it's being exploited by a few players but I'd rather not say how here.  Let's just say it's easy to get some cheap gold.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Milo
I have had way too many games drop. It's making the game not fun.
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Re: PVP Game drops

SteveGoblin
This affects many PvP games. It seems there are a few players exploiting our good nature and spoiling it for others. We are aware of who they are, and will try and sort this out.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
If may help;
I can play without problem with:
Volcano
ElfenBerzerkir
Theterra
Lorenzo B
Cog.Bot
13GhostRider13
SethEschweiler
Marvinians

I can't do that with
Bourke street
El Cid
Darcyvelasco
Kobie_555
Gangleri
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Re: PVP Game drops

MadAdaM
Mr. Rouge, you forgot to put my nickname (AdamKadabra) in your list... =)
Unfortunately, I would have been in the second part... I believe we never played a full game, did we?
While I usually can finish my games with Bourke Street, Darcyvelasco and Kobie_555 without any problem.
By the way, I play on an iPhone 4, if this matters.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
I knew it! I forgot someone! Sorry, lol
We must to finish one game, at least... we have some chances, for example today I played against KenobiLight and Darcyvelasco for the fist time since a long time (just for few hour) so keep the faith 😂
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Re: PVP Game drops

Milo
I have games where we were a few hands in and they were clearly in good standing. My home wifi is sketchy upstairs but I get similar results when I turn off wifi and run on LTE.
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Re: PVP Game drops

MikeGoblin
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mr.Rouge
Thanks for the details Mr Rouge!

I suspect if we were to plot the locations of the players on a map, we might find some geographical groupings that correlate with reliability. (Very distant players suffer more than regional players).

The underlying issue then is a combination of a poor network connection and low-level networking Game Kit bugs that appear to have been introduced with the iOS 8 rollout.

I have a small workaround improvement ready to test, what would be incredibly helpful here is if say Mr Rouge and Bourke Street both agreed to run a Beta version and play each other to measure if reliability has improved as a result - I'll email you both later this month to pursue that idea :)

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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
Thanks Mike.
I agreed to run beta version, no problem.. I think it's a good idea. During last weeks I tried everything in my power to change this situation: I changed device, I played PvP under different wifi networks, under cellular connection (3G and LTE), I restart app before every game etc. Beta maybe a good chance to fix that.
Knowing where different players connects from, may helps, effectively. I play from northern Italy (yeah, I know.. we are a sort of digital 3rd world, but whatever I surf Internet with a 20mbps speed).
I'll check for your email..
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Re: PVP Game drops

MikeGoblin
Administrator
20Mbps sustained is fine for anywhere in the world, and northern Italy is very beautiful :)
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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
Ok. I'm sorry to say that my problem (and very probably the same for other players) depending from Game Center.. I tested with Mike (thank you!) a lot of stuff, like beta versions, connection checks (DSL and 3G) but there's nothing we can really do to solve this issue. Apple have to help with some updates, I guess. I noticed that eventually everything goes fine after a lot of attempts, so I keep trying have PVP games just to play with you guys.
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Re: PVP Game drops

MikeGoblin
Administrator
For anyone following this, the specific class of problem this covers is:

Problem: Both sides receive a disconnect, and both win, after 20 seconds.

In this case, one of the two parties has a network configuration problem that means it isn't reaching the Apple GC servers.

You can measure this by running the following command:

If you're on a Mac, run it in Terminal.
traceroute init.gc.apple.com


If Windows, open a Cmd Prompt and run
tracert init.gc.apple.com


If that command ends with a bunch of lines looking like this:
61  * * *
62  * * *
63  * * *
64  * * *

Then your network can't reliably reach the Game Centre setup server and the match will probably timeout after 20 seconds.

If it looks something like this:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 10.95.0.1
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms sun1-ge11-1.gw.optusnet.com.au
5 9 ms 14 ms 10 ms 198.142.144.70

Here we can see the first two hops are both addresses in the private range. This implies a double NAT setup and again this will likely suffer from a disconnect within ~20 seconds.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Mr.Rouge
I know that you can't do anything for my kind of issue, but I noticed that this problem got worst in last weeks. I can't play against almost anyone in PVP mode. A bunch of players starts to leave match when pick me.. it's very frustrating and makes me sad. I would like to say to everyone that I challenge that is not my fault but often game drops faster than my writing. Please guys, try again something... speak with Apple or else.. I don't want to buy new expansion cards and building good decks just to play with AI...
Thanks
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Re: PVP Game drops

MikeGoblin
Administrator
Yes it is frustrating.

But I wonder if you could change your network to remove the "double NAT" situation and enable a better connection via Game Centre?

Apple insist there is nothing they can do and it is because of local network configuration, and that the 20 second timeout after connection indicates exactly that.
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Re: PVP Game drops

Cog.Bot
MikeGoblin wrote
Apple insist there is nothing they can do and it is because of local network configuration, and that the 20 second timeout after connection indicates exactly that.
I think I am confused (with apologies to .Confused.).

1) It all worked before iOS8
2) I don't understand why players can connect and then it disconnects (if you can't reliably connect to Game Center), if it (almost) always work at the beginning?
3) Why does it sometimes work (all about reliability)?
4) If it is just a sporadic problem requiring reconnection, it's unfortunate that neither client nor server can do anything about it.

I know that you had implemented a 'if you lose connection for any reason for any amount of time, you lose' to keep tricksters from juking the system, but perhaps now that is causing more harm?  [I'm not a network engineer, so apologies if this is an inappropriate suggestion.]  Similarly, do other games have these sort of massive PVP issues or are we just special? :-(

My own experience has been that I started having more problems with drops in PVP after I installed a new apple time machine.  After some debugging with Mike, I went back to our original wifi for this game and have had many fewer drops (though I agree with Mr.Rouge that the problems seem to have become worse the last week or so).  I honestly don't know if it was the new Time Machine or if it was just the players I was matched against or bad luck, but it is rather ironic if Apples own Time Machine was a cause of some of our problems.

I do love this game and would hate for our player base to decrease (more) because of these issues.  If there is anything I can do to help, I'd be happy to do so!
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Re: PVP Game drops

MikeGoblin
Administrator

Here's an extract from the actual response from an Apple engineer:

"Unfortunately, while I can tell you what’s happening I can’t really
offer any fix.  The underlying issue is that creating a match is a two
stage process.  First, the GameCenter server sets up the initial
connection and shares the relevant addressing/connection information
with all players.  Then players setup connections with each other and
removes itself from the process.  The crucial detail here is:

20 secs is roughly how long it takes for stage two to fail.
Unfortunately, there isn't really anything you or GameCenter can do
about this.  I've investigated many cases of this problems down to the
the level of specific player to player problems, and in every case the
underlying problem was the the network itself was misconfigured,
typically because of double NAT networks."

Note that the above is specifically the case where the game disconnects after ~20 seconds of the initial connection, and only that case.

There may well be Spellcraft bugs for other disconnects, or even iOS 8 bugs (although most of those I believe are resolved by now).

Thanks for the offer of help - I guess if you know of ways to configure the local network to avoid double NAT that might help some people.
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